I decided to sit in (at least, virtually) on these meetings, to follow them, to provide limited transcripts of some of the more interested exchanges between committee members and witnesses, in the interest of the oft-sought transparency! I suggest reading this lengthy post only if you're really interested in the incident, the response, and most importantly, the highlights. My all-meetings-in-one transcript does not include the parsing, pausing and politicking of the official minutes, although they are linked to below.
First was an in-camera two-hour meeting on Tues. September 17. A budget of $10,950 was approved to fund the study of the August 31, 2024 incident. It was agreed that the committee invite the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities to appear for two hours each, before the end of October 2024.
"Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Friday, September 6, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of passenger rail service and the Via Rail Canada incident on August 31, 2024."
The second meeting of the week was Thurs. September 19 (1345-1720h) re: the August 31 No 622 incident with three witnesses from VIA Rail Canada Inc. Mario Péloquin - President and Chief Executive Officer, Rita Toporowski - Chief Service Delivery Officer and Denis Lavoie - General Counsel.
The meeting began with Peloquin saying the event was unacceptable and noted that VIA has commissioned an independent investigation, led by General Counsel Lavoie, that will lead to an in-depth review of its emergency management action plan. In the interim, the following corrective measures have been implemented by VIA:
- Corridor train delays will be assessed in real-time and implement evacuation if feasible.
- training requirements for all employees when dealing with difficult situations.
- revising communications protocol with Transport Canada officials to enable rapid exchange during major events.
- launch a comprehensive assessment to examine exactly what led to this event that involving a new Siemens Venture set.
All of the above precluded premature comments from Peloquin at this hearing, though he did apologize on behalf of VIA Rail Canada to the passengers affected.
Questions from committee members, with answers by Mario Peloquin (MP) or Rita Toporowski (RT) as appropriate:
EMERGENCY RESPONSE TO 622
-likening Aug 31 event to Lac-Megantic tragedy. No 622 stranded near Hwy 20 where there were buses and towns MP: August 31 was definitely an isolated incident, but one is too many. What we've discovered so far...
-RT: Since 2022, we've learned need to take better care of passengers, look as protocols with alternate transportation, offer food and water on stranded trains. Communication on train was frequent but info on rescue was lacking and caused issue on train. Failure was in escalation of failure. Team working on problem....there were two mechanical failures. First took two hours to resolve, then train moved 30 metres, then secondary mechanical failure. What can we do to fix train to move it as quickly as possible. Contacted 10 bus companies, none available. CN was in constant communication, but VIA train was closer to move affected train. We needed to escalate quicker.
-you've put changes in place but there is still no plan. The willingness to unload passengers. Is it your evidence that passengers should have been evacuated from 622? MP: We put a protocol in place to ensure evacuation is started when a situation can put passengers on a train for too long. That varies depending on circumstances. We should have evacuated those passengers much, much earlier.
- 622 was far worse than Cobourg - mechanical failure is more predictable than an ice storm. Will five hours be the maximum delay? We ordered supplies from outside to resupply the train. What can you offer to Canadians to say this will not happen a third time? MP: We have 20,000 train starts per year, with 80% arriving within 30 minutes of scheduled time. A good record. Measures we have implemented will go a long way to prevent similar incidents.
-could people leave if possible? MP: We are always doing security assessments for our passengers. If you come out of a train that is stopped, it can be difficult for seniors, those with reduced mobility, hard to walk on tracks. Easiest way to disembark is on platform. RT: In this case, the pizzas were ordered but not delivered until a safe location was reached.
-there is a communication issue with passengers. RT: Information wasn't satisfactory as to where train was going to go. Transfer of passengers from one train to another took an hour. What can we do to get emergency services to the site?
-two additional trains affected: VIA No 26 for 1.5 hours and and VIA No 24 for 5.5 hours. Based on media reports, latter train's passengers only got bag of pretzels and bottle of water. Is a meal served after a certain period of time? RT: after 45 minutes, we provide pretzels, protein bars, cookies, then again after next 45 minutes. Those are our emergency supplies.
-not enough food provided to passengers from aboard train. RT: pizza was ordered the minute they realized train had run out of food.
-will you add compensation to host railway and passengers? MP: We have a compensation protocol for the passengers on 622, 24 and 26. No conversation with CN yet with regards to compensation. Will come later if there is one.
VIA'S RESPONSE re: ITS REPUTATION
-Bachrach: Passengers want confidence that problems are being worked out. Looking forward to hearing your plan. Is evacuating train something new? Other plans do not seem new. Could passengers have been evacuated? MP: We would have taken steps quicker. Location was not safe to evacuate - elevated roadbed and forest, passengers with mobility challenges. Need to move train to safe location to evacuate.
-what is acceptable amount of time to be stranded? MP: We normally handle situations effectively. We will evacuate passengers behind a freight train derailment.
-did VIA staff follow the protocols? You have many protocols for stations and onboard. Do you keep a log of all actions taken during an emergency? MP: We have a control centre that takes care of all communications and events.
-can we see the control log of actions and activities? Who is the first person that gets called during an event? MP: different people up to Toporowski, she alerts Peloquin. Situation Centre at Transport Canada gets advised, MP advises office of the Minister and VIA Board. Chief of Police is involved in protocols and is aware. Disruption initially is communicated to control centre and team is put together to respond.
-Bachrach: 2022 and 2024 incidents were both on holiday weekends. MP: Yes, people take holidays. Staff complement is not reduced at Operations Control centre and onboard trains as well.
-in Europe, surplus locomotives are stationed at intervals for rescues. MP: We operate differently here. We don't have a supplement of locomotives that we can store around the country. We use majority of rolling stock we have every day.
-what is the plan to restore public trust? MP: customers keep coming back, confidence of travelling public is still there. We are addressing this problem seriously.
-you said all gaps have been identified and corrected. When will we receive results of internal investigation? MP: investigation still not completed due to several complicated steps. We are digging deep into all those. We have an independent inquiry that is underway. The mechanical failure is still under investigation. Lavoie: in the fall, we will be able to publish findings of the investigation.
-what about the stress that employees went through as well as passengers? Are the employees sufficiently equipped now? MP: We have a great training for employees when we hire them. Passengers say our service is better than any other in the industry. Our train staff on board did incredible work in this incident.
-VIA has a reputation of being late when we speak to Canadians and Quebecers. The decline in on-time performance is getting worse as time goes by. MP: We can control when the train leaves the initial station, then we use infrastructure that we do not control. We are talking with railway operators, but we have to make do with the infrastructure we have.
- struggling with the use of the word 'isolated'. (Several examples given from the last five years.) Trains will break down, weather will be unpredictable. Can you still with a straight face say this is isolated? MP: I can assure you that it is isolated. Those examples are outside our control: suspicious package near the track as an example.
-this protocol should have evolved many years ago. Anything above five hours should be unacceptable. MP: The new protocols we put in place ensure that we act quickly and decisively when we BELIEVE there will be an unacceptable delay. Much earlier and much faster making decisions in real time.
SIEMENS VENTURE TRAINSETS
-has Siemens been helping to resolve issue with new, expensive trains? Is Siemens covering costs incurred and is there response timely? MP: team at Siemens locally in Montreal of engineers in Sacramento is supportive every day. 622: working to identify mechanical aspects of secondary failure that caused shutdown of locomotive. There was 90 minutes with no electricity - no bathrooms - no A/C.
-with the new fleet, there will be adjustments and breaking-in periods. Can you characterize the transition to the new fleet? Are the Siemens trainsets working out better or worse than expected. MP: We are halfway through fleet implementation. Relationship between supplier and us is working well. Complex process to receive, test, commission and put in service the new trainsets. It is on-par with delivery of any new rolling stock.
-will the new long-distance fleet that will operate in more remote locations, provide for operation of toilets, provision of water well beyond Siemens fleet allows for? MP: Lessons learned from this event will be implemented in still-incomplete design requirements.
COMMUNICATION WITH TRANSPORT CANADA
-who opened communication between Transport Minister and VIA? MP: We follow a procedure, we had communications with Transport Canada around 1850h Saturday evening. Transport Canada officials were also in contact early Sunday afternoon, MP set up a call with [former]
Minister [Pablo Rodrigues, who stepped down as Transport Minister and Quebec lieutenant to run for the leadership of the Quebec Liberal party in mid-September] Tuesday 1230h following event, should've been same day.
-the minister wrote a letter asking VIA to do a certain number of things like the independent investigation. What about complaints you receive? RT: we handle complaints through email and other means, responded to specifically, 43 regarding 622 either to me, or M. Peloquin. We have interviewed 30 passengers at random throughout the train. That will give us better information as to what we can work toward.
-prior to this incident, when was your last conversation with Minister Rodrigues? MP: shortly after named minister, summer 2023.
-have you discussed Cobourg incident with Minister? MP: No. I do have regular conversations with deputy minister and other officials at Transport Canada.
-Minister's letter to VIA - MP: we prepared an interim response within two weeks. Investigation will provide full response.
RELATIONS WITH HOST RAILWAYS
-CN Rail also has freight trains running on same tracks. Can CN provide assistance, as a required need in maritime environment? CN wants to get you out of the way - should there be a more formal regulatory requirement? MP: Over 150 years railways have operated in Canada, a railroad offered assistance no matter what the problem or branding on the locomotive. The host railroad is very aware of when we are blocking their track. CN did offer to help by pushing our train out of the way. Train 24 arriving same time at that location. We can connect our train and provide the power for the disabled train. Same time frame. We work in close collaboration with CN, CP or Metrolinx at all times so there is no impediment to freight of passenger traffic.
-you do not own the railways. The infrastructure is getting old. What is your role when it comes to communicating the importance of investing in rail? MP: We only own 3% of the rail we operate on. On that 3% we have an on-time rate Montreal-Ottawa of 97%. We can control infrastructure maintenance. We can't incentivize other companies to maintain their infrastructure.
-how are your relation with the railway owners, are they close? MP: Yes, we have a very close relationship. I speak with counterparts in those companies, but within VIA we have people who communicate with host railways. Companies have differing priorities and we talk with them to ensure everyone has a sufficient level of satisfaction.
OTHER QUESTIONS AND MOTION
-will there be passengers service linking Vancouver, Lillooet, Prince George? Many BC'ers have more experience taking Amtrak down to Bellingham than within Canada. MP: I would love to do more to serve communities across the nation. All our rail cars and locomotives are currently being used.
Motion to have representatives of Unifor (from the 622 train) appear before this committee. We can have passengers appear as panel in one hour, crew in another hour. Adopted.
--- OCTOBER 3 MEETING ---
The promised next meeting was held on Thurs., October 3 (1540-1705h). Appearing before the committee was Cedryk Coderre (a passenger in car 2 of No 622), and Unifor union representatives Joel Kennedy, Director, Rail Sector and Jennifer Murray, Director, Atlantic Region (both by videoconference, denoted as UNIFOR interchangeably below). Each committee member had six minutes to question the witnesses.
I have transcribed some of the back-and-forth from the
webcast of the meeting; here are
the minutes. The opening statements follow, then the questions and answers in the order asked, first from the passenger perspective, then the union perspective:
THE PASSENGER PERSPECTIVE
Recounting his trip aboard VIA No 622, Cedryk Coderre mentioned the first delay lasted one hour. Then an announcement was made that the train would be moving ahead slowly. After 30 minutes, there was a second stop for another mechanical issue. Drinks and pretzels were provided, then chocolate and alcohol, though no more cookies, or anything else about three hours into the train ride. Eventually, VIA No 24 was to come and rescue them by pushing train 622. He said 622 was pulled to a sidetrack to let a freight train pass. When connecting the two VIA trains, power and bathrooms were not available. An hour later, the passengers in his car got restless. Some tried to get an Uber! Others considered using the emergency exit. Rumours of a fight in car 1! The police arrived and removed one passenger after an altercation with crew. An hour later, the crew disappeared from Car 2 for 30 minutes, perhaps a briefing in another car. No 26 came by, and firefighters secured both trains for passenger transfer and pizzas were delivered. Generous, he thought - he got four slices [to laughter, or in Parliamentary terms, "Voices: oh! oh!"] Transfer to train 26 was effected, though it was standing-room only. One of the crew said that this was the very last water they had to offer, just before more water and pizzas were delivered. A lot of passengers had to meet a cruise-ship departure at Quebec City and were justifiably concerned about a multi-hour delay. [
This CTV News story mentions a $5,000 loss due to no-show, no-refund policy by the cruise line.]
Under questioning, M. Coderre felt communication was adequate and crew handled the situation well, unlike some other passengers' opinions! He travels a lot by rail and air, and is used to delays. Other passengers were stressed and on edge about arriving on time, trying to figure out a way to get off the train, such as calling 9-1-1. He said he did not at any point feel in danger.
-VIA Rail management mentioned to us this was an isolated incident. Do you agree, from a passenger standpoint? CC: No, it's not frequent to be delayed for 10-12 hours, but 1-2 hour delays are frequent. Six to seven hours elapsed between the meal he had onboard and when pizza was delivered. More should be done for emergency provisions - besides just chocolate and pretzels.
-was the VIA description of the handling of the incident inconsistent with your experience on the train? CC:The one thing that really stood out was....hard to recollect.
-would you prefer more frequent updates with bad news or no news? CC [to laughter]: If VIA can avoid getting to the point where they have no plans, that would be ideal! He received a refund and a 100% travel credit.
-Were you made aware of a complaint resolution process by VIA beyond those compensations? CC: No.
-What about reports of police escorting someone from the train? CC: I witnessed this, not sure who or why.
-would you support a passenger bill of rights similar to the airline industry? CC:Yes.
-the train you were on was a new train, and it was unacceptable for it to fail. Was the compensation you received enough to satisfy passengers on that train? Is it lacking? CC: At first it felt generous, but the offered travel credit would likely not be used in 12 months by most of the passengers on that train.
-was there no way for passengers to be unloaded for that train? CC: When we transferred, we were high up on the 'highway' and a lot of the passengers could not easily get off the train, especially those with disabilities.
-how did they endure that 10-hour delay? CC: It was rougher for them.
-how often are the trains you were riding late? CC: 40% of the time my train is late.
-does this discourage you from taking VIA in future? CC: I take the earliest train to leave 6-8 hour buffer to ensure my connection[to laughter].
-any other thoughts? CC: in future, VIA could order pizzas or water or something else or much sooner - before eight hours. Staff behaviour - first four hours top service. Frustrations pile up when there is no plan. It's the company that did not give coherent messaging, not the staff.
At CFB Gagetown, their freeze-dried foods are stocked for their troops undergoing training. Perhaps every train could have freeze-dried meals for ever passenger and staff member.
[One has to wonder if this was the best passenger to appear before the committee. One committee member wished more passengers had been available to appear.]
THE UNION/EMPLOYEE PERSPECTIVE
UNIFOR represents 9,200 in the rail sector, over 2,000 of those workers are at VIA. Jennifer Murray spoke to the frequency of VIA Rail train delays. Her comments focused on VIA's lack of planning overall in the rail system. Though VIA says passengers come first, their focus is on dealing with infrastructure during delays, not passengers. VIA needs to get better at serving passengers, not reducing staff and charging passengers additional fees. She disagreed that VIA's safety practices meet industry standards. Though VIA wants to deal with environmental impacts on passengers, emergency service interruptions caused by underinvestment should be the priority. For delayed trains, food, water, temperature-controlled areas and alternative transport during crises are paramount. She called into question the CEO's responses at the previous hearing. Crew facing harassing behaviour from passengers during a crisis bear the brunt. Staff is lean and under stress, she said. Even though freight lines that VIA uses are remote, there must be emergency access. Tracks should be twinned to ensure at least one track remains in service during long train delays. She called for a VIA Rail Act to be implemented, and make investment to ensure safe, resilient, on-time service.
Under questioning, were safety management plans respected? UNIFOR: It was unsafe to detrain go another train until the situation was secured.
-what communication practices were exercised that day? UNIFOR: It's always a struggle at the call centre to give out information to callers.
-did you have conversations with employees on-board, or hear of practices that were not followed that day? UNIFOR: They made announcements to passengers with the limited information they had. The Ocean is notoriously many, many hours late. In the Corridor, long delays are more rare but not isolated.
-are Unifor members involved in this incident reaching out to the union to convey concerns? UNIFOR: Not to our office, but likely elsewhere.
-is Unifor engaged with VIA in its climate change planning? UNIFOR: has not been consulted.
-what would he like to see in terms of government's role in consultation? UNIFOR: Changes to Railway Act or other regulation require union consultation. If we were consulted, Unifor would have a representative at the table. Unifor members are holding the train together in this type of situation. A passenger bill of rights would also be supported by Unifor.
-does Unifor have examples where tracks could be twinned to prevent service disruptions? UNIFOR: We need dedicated passenger rail trackage. For emergency situations, those tracks need to be twinned.
-what does Unifor see as the biggest takeaways from this incident? What can the Committee do in terms of specific recommendations to prevent such incidents? UNIFOR: VIA is lacking emergency response plans and better emergency preparedness.
-did Unifor get a comprehensive report or suggestions from staff on that particular train regarding how to deal with a similar event in the future? UNIFOR: We haven't seen anything, though it's not the first time for some of these employees.
-did your union engage with these employees? UNIFOR: It's a great idea, and also for VIA to engage in a conversation with their staff so they can hear how this can be done better. It's VIA that will be implementing things going forward and they should care enough to hear from them. The on-board crew heard what the passengers heard - that there was no plan.
-the committee would appreciate anything they could share from Unifor. UNIFOR: Two years ago, there was a 14-hour delay to a train, we talked to VIA Rail officials that assured us there would be changes.
-did anything change internally for the crews? UNIFOR: Not that we know of. For many years of these long delays occurring, there has been a decision for more frequent communication, even if there's no information.
-were your members asked for input that could inform VIA's response in future incidents? UNIFOR: Not to our knowledge; Unifor was not consulted. We're not consulted unless the companies are compelled to consult with us. We bring valuable information up from the ranks from health & safety committees, but not being consulted is problematic for us.
-did VIA's personnel do the best they could given their limitations, or could they or the company have responded differently given the restraints? UNIFOR: The on-board crews are trained for only short, 2-3 hour delays. Larger delays often require on-board crew to rely on management. So resources coming from the company perspective: planning, training and resources are required.
-is VIA's resource amount enough, or is it the allocation? UNIFOR: VIA does not improve its passenger-related systems, despite the purchase of new trains, to support their passengers and their emergency preparedness. What if this was in Northern Manitoba at -40C? We need to look at VIA Rail's planning. An independent report was commissioned in the Cobourg incident. Unifor is not privy to that report or its results. VIA should be sharing that with the union and the workers that keep the trains going, and I'm surprised they haven't.
-did VIA set your members up for failure? UNIFOR: It is the employer's responsibility to ensure our members' health and safety. Their lack of investment put our members in harm's way that day.
-have you heard experience with trains delayed on the Ocean? UNIFOR: There was an ice storm with trees fallen on tracks; a difficult time for crews and passengers and delayed the train greatly. The union at that time went to VIA and begged them to listen to the workers' experience. We were given an opportunity to meet and the workers talked to the employer and expressed their concerns.
-what about employees' conduct that was questionable, such as Car 1 VIA employee lashing out at passenger [grabbing his phone]? What disciplinary measures were taken? UNIFOR: Well, it's an indication of what happens when employees are unprepared for what takes place.
[VIA may discontinue J-trains due to issues with MU controls and communications among Siemens sets : VIA No 633 rescued by VIA No 631 on March 16, 2024 - MU failure causing 2 extra hours delay; VIA No 622 being rescued by VIA No 24 on Aug 31, 2024 - rescue failed due to MU issues.]
--- OCTOBER 10 MEETING ---
Another meeting was scheduled for Thursday, October 10 (1530-1730 h). Witnesses appearing: Hon. Anita Anand, Minister of Transport and from the Department of Transport: Arun Thangaraj, Deputy Minister; Lisa Setlakwe, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security; Craig Hutton, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy; Stephen Scott, Director General, Rail Safety and Security.
I have transcribed some of the remarks from the
webcast. Here are
the minutes. Questions from committee members in the order asked, with answers by Anita Anand (AA), Arun Thangaraj (AT), Lisa Setlakwe (LS), Craig Hutton (CH) or Stephen Scott (SS) as appropriate.
Opening remarks by Minister Anand...I was shocked to hear about the treatment of the passengers stranded 10 hours...physical and psychological discomfort. Completely unacceptable, frustrating, disappointing, but VIA Rail has a responsibility to passengers' health and well-being. Passengers deserved much better treatment on August 31. Mechanical failures on the train are being studied by VIA Rail. But mechanical breakdown does not justify the 10 hours with limited access to essential services. I stepped in and met with VIA executives. Immediately after the incident we demanded VIA Rail take concrete steps and report back to ensure it doesn't happen again. Simply put, VIA Rail has to improve employee training, providing updates to passengers on their trains more frequently, and review incident procedures so that passengers receive a basic standard of care and are treated with dignity. We asked for a robust, updated emergency response action plan in 30 days - not yet received. We will keep demanding VIA provide a reliable rail service that meets the needs of all Canadians. I am pushing VIA Rail to treat their passengers with dignity and respect. Our government's priority is to reduce the number of delays and ensure VIA do better for its passengers.
Under questioning with Minister Anita Anand (AA):
-can you commit that VIA Rail limit their delays to 5 hours? How often do you talk to Transport Canada? Referred to Deputy Minister. Immediately after the incident, the previous Minister spoke to the CEO of VIA Rail. The former Minister, Pablo Rodrigues was asked to appear in a Unanimous Consent motion.
-VIA Rail mentioned numerous causes for the incident i.e. host railways, environmental. How will High Speed Rail (HSR), [and High Frequency Rail (HFR)] change the face of passenger rail service? AA: There needs to be predictability at VIA Rail - right now! We continue to discuss incidents. We need infrastructure for Canadians today and for the future - a priority for our government but not the Opposition! We are looking at three HSR/HFR projects at the moment that we hope will benefit Canada. I will be asking VIA for additional HSR/HFR projects.
-the role of Transport Canada and VIA Rail. What is the relationship between you, your staff and VIA Rail? AA: A basic fact - VIA is a Crown corporation, operationally separate from the Government of Canada - their sole shareholder. We can set broad policy parameters, but such a situation as we are discussing is the responsibility of VIA Rail to address it.
-I am pleasantly surprised you were able to speak to senior management at VIA since you've been appointed. I do not blame you personally, I blame VIA for its poor management, bad service delivery. If there is blame to lay on the government, it is to do with the late implementation of HFR, obsolete trains and they come back to haunt us time and time again. AA: I completely agree with you. Such incidents are unacceptable, whether they happen once, twice or more. As Minister for only three weeks, I told senior VIA leadership the situation is unacceptable. I want updates going forward - a communications protocol and what their plan is to offer exceptional service to passengers.
-dedicated tracks and renewing the fleet of VIA trains that date back to the 1950s, I do not feel a sense of urgency, nor that there is money attached. What's coming up in terms of concrete measures? AA: New trains are entering service in the Corridor. We have announced an investment of new cars now in the pre-procurement stage. Our investments from 2021 to 2024 have been in the millions of dollars and show our interest in renewing the fleet. Deputy Minister: Siemens contract let in 2018.
-a passenger from train 622 testified before our Committee, as did VIA employee representatives. In the wake of the investigation you're holding, if VIA needs more financial resources, will you provide them? AA: We as a government take this file very seriously. In my calls to the VIA CEO and Board Chair, a lack of supplies and facilities [clearly] is not a financial issue. We will consider a funding request, but there are things they can do right now to prevent this happening again.
-the December, 2022 incident...AA: Processes from 2022 were in place but not followed. Management and crew require more training. From a ministerial and government level, we have a responsibility to demand better.
-HFR is a known priority for the future. What about passenger service outside the Corridor? There are fewer options than in the last hundred years for rural Canadians. What is your vision? AA: I come from rural Canada, Kentville in Nova Scotia's Annapolis Valley, and I appreciate your question. We have a challenging geography my department needs to address, ensuring adequate access that is innovative. HFR/HSR is just one priority.
-the then-CEO of VIA was here after the December, 2022 Cobourg incident, and said he had not heard from your ministerial counterpart at that time. Airport authorities also had not after delays in air travel. How will this be different with you as Minister? Previous Minister was missing in action. AA: It will be different. I have talked to VIA CEO and airline CEOs. I take this job seriously and will continue to work on behalf of Canadians who need rail service for the economy and basic transport and connectivity in this country. I deeply resent the implication that I'm not on top of this file!
AA: As of September 3, 2024 VIA implemented a new escalation protocol on trains and operations control centre. TC is immediately notified and after a 2-hour delay, VIA starts arranging alternative transportation. In-person training sessions for leadership and employees responsible for operations were held in September re: emergency and crisis management plans. VIA commissioned two reports. One on understanding operational gaps that led to the incident and another on mechanical factors that led to it. I have received a response from VIA on what it is doing, and I do not speak for VIA. They are accountable and need to come and tell this Committee what they are doing and what they have done.
- do you feel confident VIA Rail can achieve the results, and can there be consequences? AA: That's why I spoke to the Board Chair and CEO separately. Every time there is a new Chair, we put forward a letter of expectation, and the Board has to keep executives accountable. Only after speaking with the Chair did I speak to VIA's CEO and about the implementation of the steps in Minister Rodrigues' plan after the incident.
Motion to invite the Minister back to the Committee before Christmas Break. There is already another invitation on the table.
-investing in the long-distance fleet. Your plan to privatize the Corridor is going to starve VIA Rail of 95% of its passenger revenue. AA: It's not a question of privatization. It's a public-private partnership with those who have experience. The public sector will have a role, naturally. AT: then VIA can focus their operational focus on Ocean, Canadian, Churchill etc.
-as the representative of the sole shareholder of VIA Rail, can you assure us that we will see measurable improvement in services offered to Canadian rail passengers? AA: I guarantee I will exercise my authority to fulfill my oversight role. I will include the letter of expectations and letter my predecessor delivered to VIA Rail. Everything will be in place by Q1 of 2025.
-do you feel VIA, in a multimodal network, can handle future expectations on levels of service? AA: The investments we have made as a government to rebuild its fleet (listed $ amounts allocated over several years) totalling 790 million dollars, compared to 2010-2013 Conservative government - zero.
Motion of unanimous consent to request the Minister to provide letters of expectation sent to VIA Rail. Adopted.
Questioning of Deputy Ministers:
-comments on action plans and protocol changes after Cobourg incident? AT: communications with our department re: escalation. LS: they did not communicate with us when they detected a delay, and we have strengthened that protocol requirement for delays over three hours.
-when did Transport Canada first learn of the delay to VIA train 622? LS: initial delay 1120, we were first aware about 1845. They are to update us on an hourly basis. We had communication throughout. It's up to VIA to call upon resources available to them. They have to make the arrangements with bus operators.
Unanimous consent Motion to have former minister Pablo Rodrigues attend to discuss communications between his office, Transport Canada and VIA. No objection.
-the VIA CEO said that VIA was making a complete assessment of the Quebec incident. Are you aware of the discussions between VIA and Siemens to determine cause of mechanical breakdown? LS: their investigation is their own initiative and will share insights of research when it's released. We are conducting our own investigation to understand what exactly broke down mechanically speaking on that train. The deadline is not specific but it will be in the months to come. They don't know where there investigation is going to take them.
-have there been other major mechanical problems with the new Siemens trains? CH: From a regulator's perspective, we're not aware of a systemic issue with the fleet at this time. LS: This is a new technology so of course there will be adjustments to be made, but there are no problems with the new equipment to date.
-the former Minister of Transport required a better emergency plan and communication protocol from VIA to Transport Canada 30 days following his appearance at the Committee in September. What is Transport Canada's role in these efforts? SS: We will review the reports and findings that VIA commissions and provides to us. We do our own review to ensure we're satisfied with the fleet. If extra actions should be taken from a safety aspect, we can impose those as a regulator. LS: After the Quebec incident, we inspected the train and found no cases of non-compliance with our standards. As the Minister said, we are expecting the report and recommendations in the first part of 2024.
-we learned train 622 was stalled at the time during the Quebec incident. What kind of procedures should be implemented for passenger safety? SS: the procedure to follow when a new train is brought on is the following. VIA needs to fulfill obligations as a regulated entity, to provide assurances to us as a regulator that the new fleet meets the safety standards. We do a due diligence review on that. Dry-run inspections before the fleet is introduced...a lot of engineering...the company has a series of pre-commissioning dry-runs, milestones and procedures. We don't have an official certification role, we do a due diligence review with any new fleet.
-long-haul fleet Canadian, Ocean fleet will consist of locomotives, specialty cars etc. VIA has said their fleet will not be functional in 10 years. AT: RFI for market sounding of what is available, based on the information being reviewed, they will look at how they structure a RFQ and RFP for that fleet. Objective for deployment of the new fleet is unknown to us right now.
-has the problem been solved that caused the mechanical breakdown? LS: the problem was fixed. There were mechanical issues and there was no crew or equipment to fix the train onsite. At Transport Canada, we asked if this problem could appear in other cars? We will see the results of the investigation, but this is not a systemic issue.
-the three-hour notification protocol seems short. How often is Transport Canada notified by VIA of such delays. LS: I can get back to you with that data. CH: There is no similar operational delay notification with airlines, except weather delays or cancellations beyond an hour that will impact other airlines or passengers. LS: If VIA had notified us at the three-hour mark in Quebec? Our mandate is about the safety of passengers. We will reassure ourselves that they are taking the steps necessary. Do passengers need transferring? We are not prescriptive of their plans. AT: Operational response is solely the responsibility of VIA Rail. We are informed to ensure safety aspects are covered off. Our role kicks in if it's a derailment or fatality. They have to communicate with us in a timely manner so we can provide assurances around safety. We will not dictate the operational response.
-was appropriate compensation given to the passengers, based on the passenger testimony at this committee? AT: As part of the Minister's request to VIA Rail, details of how VIA communicates with its passengers and resolves complaints. VIA has confirmed 24/7 communication with passengers and the public, and what passengers can expect as part of their responsibility. We have looked at the issue of passenger rights. VIA has put information on their website, and as operator they are in the best position to be responsive to their customers to address these situations.
-are you aware of the ongoing discussions between VIA and Siemens to determine cause of mechanical breakdown? LS: As part of the investigation response from VIA, we have learned that we will be made aware that the report will be available to us by mid-November, earlier than I had said previously. We will take that report as useful to us, also doing our own assessment of that report and what transpired.
-are you aware of any other significant mechanical breakdowns with these new trains? LS: No.
-when I think about the 10-hour delay to 622, was it due to a lack of protocol in place at the time, or a failure in following existing procedures? LS: there was a confluence of events, part of it was mechanical in the sense that there was a hose that got worn, couldn't be repaired on site. Mechanical assistance was required from elsewhere. There was an issue with the train that was to rescue 622. There was some lack of training of personnel on the train as well. That's what has been identified so far.
-we heard from passengers on 622, and news reports as well. I've taken multiple VIA Rail trains. There might be three pretzels in their pretzel bags. It's not sustenance. In the letter sent by Minister Rodrigues, asking for changes at VIA Rail, I saw nothing about passenger supply of food. AT: water, food, working lavatories are essential. As part of the escalation process at the second hour, they will take into consideration all those factors when making that decision. This is up to VIA Rail to manage and that they will take action accordingly.
-Transport Action Canada recommended that VIA treat trains broken-down as trains in a station, that protects them from other trains and protect passengers. SS: I'm not familiar with that specific requirement. There are emergency broadcast requirements with Rail Traffic Control centres to alert nearby trains. A disruption should not cause other problems.
-has Transport Canada done a study of fleet loss and a possible loss of service to routes? The CEO of VIA said their mechanics are performing miracles to keep the old fleet in service. AT: We do have a date of 2034 [for withdrawal and replacement of the fleet]. I would have to verify such a study.
-can dry Army-type rations be stored on trains, and can that be regulated by Transport Canada? AT: we'd have to look at our legal authorities, it would fall under operational remit of VIA Rail so I will raise that with the Chair and CEO.
Running extra...
Barely will the pixels be propagated in this propitious post when VIA has
another debacle on its hands with a truck-overpass collision and a dead Venture Set 16 on VIA No 40 in Brockville mere hours apart directly delaying seven trains for up to five hours on October 22. The same complaints are raised on social media as on No 622: lack of communication, lack of food, lack of power, lack of operational options i.e. blocked single-track mainline and something new....passengers questioning whether the new CN-imposed speed reductions have negatively affected the Venture sets and jokes about...pretzels.
