Saturday, September 3, 2022

Ex-CP Smooth-Side Cars Transferred to VIA

TRANSFERRED TO VIA IN 1978
A number of ex-CP coaches and head-end cars were transferred to VIA at the end of September, 1978. While some saw VIA service, most languished in coach yards, many in Montreal's CP Glen Yard. Cynics suggest that CP was cleaning out its yards while getting money from VIA Rail, knowing that these cars were not ever likely to see VIA service due to their age and condition. Some never turned a wheel for VIA.

CP's SMOOTH-SIDE FLEET
Built as a response to post-war passenger traffic and the generally downtrodden state of many passenger cars following the busy wartime period, two groups of 'curved-side' coaches were commissioned by CP:
  • CP 2220-2234 built by National Steel Car, Hamilton 1947-48, fitted out by CP's Angus Shops.
  • CP 2235-2298 built by Canadian Car & Foundry, Montreal 1949-50.
While there are many references to the unique, curved-side design of these welded steel cars, I use the term smooth-side to differentiate them from the Budd 'Canadian' stainless-steel 100-series coaches. Since none of the NSC cars went to VIA, I'm referring to the CC&F cars throughout this post. (The 2200's are not to be confused with CPs earlier 2100-series cars built in the 1930's and their smaller windows.)

Both classes were very similar, at a length over sills of 77' 11 1/2", overall length of 83' 10 1/2", with 68 seats - 52 in the main room and 16 in a smoking section. Trucks were four-wheel Commonwealth design by General Steel Castings Corp. of Eddystone, PA. Both builders delivered the cars in overall tuscan red, with yellow-gold CANADIAN PACIFIC lettering near the black roofline. The CC&F cars were equipped with mechanical refrigeration and a modified truck design.

IN CP SERVICE
The cars saw varied service, such as on the Atlantic Limited, and overflow service (top photo - Calgary) on the Canadian between Calgary and Vancouver. An online auction site photo of No 2 (above) taken at Field in 1978 shows a 2200-series coach behind the baggage-dorm. During holiday travel periods, the cars could be added to the Atlantic Limited, or replaced Dayliners on Calgary-Edmonton trains. They were also used on short-haul trains that still existed before the advent of VIA, such as Montreal-Ottawa*. There are many accounts of the 2200-series cars giving passengers a smooth, comfortable ride. 

Thirteen of the cars were later repainted to overall aluminum with yellow-gold CANADIAN PACIFIC lettering on a tuscan red letterboard. In the CP Rail era, the letterboard was painted Action Red, with CP Rail lettering and small multimark. (CP's heavyweight fleet had previously passed into other services by 1972, such as rules cars or Service cars.)

DISPOSITION AFTER CP

In light of declining passenger traffic, 19 cars were leased to CN for their busy Expo 67 period from June, 1966 to November, 1967. CP lent 2210, 2236, 2258, 2266, 2285 and 2298 to the Government of Canada for use on the Confederation Train. Twenty-one cars were sold to Hawker-Siddeley in 1967-68, refurbished for NdeM in Mexico. Other cars were sold to Ontario Northland in 1968 (2), Algoma Central thence Wisconsin Central in 1972-73 (13), the Government of British Columbia for museum service in 1973 (4), BC Rail in 1973-74 for tourist train service (12), and the Quebec Cartier Railway in 1972 and 1976 (4).

IN VIA SERVICE

As for the remaining coaches that went to VIA - some reports state that these ex-CP smooth-side cars were all retired by November, 1978 although photos show that some must have been reactivated, since coaches were still in use in 1979. It would appear that time frame was actually two years, not two months! There were concerns about compatibility and no doubt streamlining the polyglot fleet that VIA inherited from CP, and mostly CN. Photos of the ex-CP head-end cars in service are rare**, likely because if there was one thing that VIA never seemed short of, it was baggage cars. At various times, ex-CN baggages were leased to Amtrak, stored, and usually the last ex-CN car type to receive VIA blue & yellow paint.

Interestingly, the Budd 'Canadian' cars that VIA obtained from CP as part of the same transfer continue to be the backbone of VIA's intercity and long-distance fleet some 45 years hence. Most photos of the smooth-side cars in service are no later than 1979 and I don't recall any seeing Montreal-Toronto Corridor service. 

Eric May kindly shared a photo taken by his brother Bruce in July, 1979 showing VIA No 2 arriving Calgary. Behind VIA 1416, two CP Rail Geeps, an ex-CN baggage and I-series 24-roomette is a CP 2200 followed by a VIA-painted stainless steel coach and Action Red Skyline:
The ex-CP smooth-side cars were eventually scrapped or sold to other railways. Ex-CP Rail baggage 2720, showing remnants of at least two paint schemes, languishes in Winnipeg at the bumper of an East Yard coach track, with ex-CN Sceneramic Fraser (Brian Schuff photo):
DISPOSITION AFTER VIA

I've summarized all the information I could find on the ex-CP smooth-side cars in their transition from CP to VIA, as well as their eventual disposition, in the table below. If a picture is worth a thousand words, a table is worth ten times that! The table includes colour of stripe, sold status, storage status and scrap dates. It also lists a few known CP baggage cars that were not sold to VIA, as well as a few odd head-end cars that were transferred but rarely if ever photographed:
Bruce Chapman made a trip to the CP Glen Yard in Westmount to photograph languishing ex-CP cars that had been sold to VIA. In a variety of CPR/CP Rail colours, these cars were resting and rusting, seemingly forgotten, and most decidedly not in VIA service. Bruce's photos are from 1983:
Ex-CP 2734 its CANADIAN PACIFIC lettering seemingly removed (above) and CP Rail-lettered 2732 (below) coupled to CP Rail Motive Power Test car:
Ex-CP 2424, still with maroon stripe. The central position of the doors meant a very long distance between CANADIAN an PACIFIC. CP Spans the World and spans the letterboard, too:
Unreadable-numbered car in CP Rail colours:

Lots o' links:
In print:
  • * A Robert Sandusky photo in Chris Greenlaw's excellent MBI book on VIA Rail shows VIA 1432 still in CP Rail paint pulling three similarly-painted 2200's at Lachute, QC. The caption states that No 132 on the North Shore route was normally a Dayliner, but this smooth-side equipment was protecting the service when photographed on March 24, 1979.
  • ** Tom Nelligan's VIA Rail Canada: The first five years includes a photo of VIA No 1 captioned April 1981, with an ex-CP baggage in the consist.
Photos in this post kindly shared by Bruce Chapman unless otherwise indicated. Top photo taken by D.L. Zeutschel, kindly shared by Brian Schuff.

Running extra...
 
On display: months after I was born, CPR 5433 was put on display in Chapleau. This photo set portrays some of the day's events for posterity.
On the block: speaking of CP relics, crane 414222 is in Milwaukee, offered for sale by the company. The crane still has its inspection certificate from Pankratz Engineering in Winnipeg:
On the cowcatcher: our grandson took in a lunch downtown with us, plus a visit to the Pumphouse Museum's 'On The Move' exhibit and a trip to the toy store. Though we did not walk out with his choice, a $155 dumptruck/float trailer/backhoe set, he did choose two smaller trucks for himself and two for his brother, at a third of the price!

16 comments:

  1. Hi. I worked for Via Rail as a redcap baggage porter at the CP Waterfront Station Vancouver in 1978-1979. During the summer of 1979 some 2200 series ex-CP smooth side coaches turned up about a half dozen times at 601 West Cordova Street. The CP head end crew never seemed to mind those 2200 series in the consists, as most of the ol' CPR fellas hated the former CN 5400-5500 series CCF coaches that were often part of Via's summer of 1979 'The Canadian' consist, so an oddball CPR coach showing up never seemed to bother those CPR employees. Also, yeah, everyone seems to forget that Via Rail DID operate out of the CP Waterfront Station in Vancouver. BTW, Via Rail's consist for 'The Canadian" the summer of 1979 was the classic" dog's breakfast". From what I recall from working for Via Rail at the CP Waterfront Station the summer of 1979, consist was:
    3 units, classic ex-CP F's
    ex-CN baggage car
    ex-CN 24 roomette 'I' series sleeper used as crew dormitory
    ex-CP 100 series legrest coach
    ex-CP 100 series legrest coach
    ex-CN 5400-5500 series 76 seat coach
    ex-CN 5700 series deluxe Dayniter coach
    ex-CP Skyline
    ex-CP 'Manor' sleeper
    ex-CP 'Manor' sleeper
    ex-CP 'Manor' sleeper
    ex-CP 'Manor' sleeper
    ex-CP dining car
    ex-CN 'E' type sleeper
    ex-CN 'E' type sleeper
    ex-CN 'E' type sleeper'
    ex-CP 'Chateau' type sleeper
    ex-CP 'Manor' type sleeper
    ex-CP 'Park' sleeper observation dome lounge

    From what I recall, the two ex-CP sleepers ahead of the Park car were switched off at Calgary.

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  2. Hi Greg Menard,

    Thanks for your comment and consist. Yes, 1979 was a real turning point, with ex-CN steam generators being thrown into the consist depending on season. Interesting to hear about the preferences re: CN versus CP equipment! Everyone has their favourites, it seems.

    Eric

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  3. Thanks for this post. We rode in these coaches on the Agawa Canyon train and an excursion on the Petit Train du Nord route. We also saw one in the eastbound Canadian at Calgary in July 1979. While some of the cars were in good shape it looks like CP pulled a fast one to get rid of surplus equipment in rough shape. The paint did not hold up very well.

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  4. I've been partial to these cars since I first saw them in the mid-1970's. CPR's CMO HB Bowen designed the first iteration of streamlined coaches in the 1930's to run behind their streamlined Jubilee loco's. The turnunder of the sides below the window sill gave these cars a UK outline not found on other roads this side of the Atlantic. Production continued into and after WWII with baggage cars to this design being built into 1953. CP wound up owning over three hundred streamlined steel passenger cars, roughly twice the number of Budd stainless cars made for The Canadian.

    My introduction to these cars was by riding an employee special from Toronto's CP Agincourt Yard across the North Toronto Sub to Lambton Yard. Five of these coaches, including 2278 in maroon and silver, were sandwiched between two SW1200RS loco's.

    The 2235-2298 series appear to have been design inspiration for CN streamlined coaches built in the 1950's. The interior layout was simply reversed in CN's coaches to place the smoking section at the vestibule end.

    But that turnunder on the side of the CPR streamlined cars gave them a cool factor unmatched by CN's cars. It's nice that many of these cars survive today. Most notable is 2255 which has been restored to CPR maroon and runs on a tourist line in Ohio.

    Steve Lucas

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  5. Hi Steve,

    That employee special was certainly a unique use for the CP 2200's! And yes, many have survived, as have some ex-CN cars, long beyond their intended service life albeit in lesser uses.

    It's neat to delve into the design and implementation of these post-war passenger cars, long forgotten as we enter the age of VIA's Siemens sets. They were indeed ahead of their time!

    Thanks for your comment,
    Eric

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  6. Hi Eric,

    I just came across (and added a link to) your Train du Nord photo on Railpictures.ca! Thanks for adding your experiences with this unique part of the CP passenger fleet!

    Eric

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  7. This equipment was also used in the 1978 Superman movie as the "Kansas Star".

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  8. I like the cowcatcher photo! And commemoration of QE2. Makes me recall your including a photo of her in the family collage you made the folks for their anniversary one time.

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  9. Well we like to keep it classy here on Trackside Treasure, Allison.

    Many have said that the Queen was someone you could just have over to your house for tea. So by that logic, she definitely would be a member of the family and would be treated as one, albeit with great reverence.

    The future King George V and Queen Mary rode a short distance through the Fraser River canyon on a cowcatcher! That was 121 years ago!

    We will definitely miss the most consequential, longest-reigning monarch of recent times!
    Eric

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  10. There was an excursion run from Calgary to Field BC and back in 1971 using C Liner 4081 and 4 of the smooth sided cars. A baggage and a coach in silver with a Tuscan letterboard and 2 coaches with an action red letterboard and CP Rail lettering.

    Some slides of that trip were offered for sale this summer by Trains and Such in Calgary. A search of their completed E bay listings will turn them up, such as this one: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/155045235498?hash=item24196a8b2a:g:dvIAAOSwvRVisLIg

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  11. Hi Craig,

    Thanks for that additional information and for the link.
    The Ebay server is not cooperating right now.
    Eric

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  12. Does this work?

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dvIAAOSwvRVisLIg/s-l1600.jpg

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  13. It does, Craig. Awesome photo!
    Thanks,
    Eric

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  14. Hi Eric,

    Thanks for another fascinating post!! :)

    I've always loved Canadian Pacific's smooth sided passenger cars with their unique look. Of course, I'm slightly biased as I lived for many years beside (within eyesight) CP's Montreal to Quebec City mainline. I believe the cars were used on the Viger and Frontenac before the regular consists were replaced by RDCs in mid 1971 (I disliked RDCs because they were responsible for the disappearance of regular passenger equipment trains - at least in the eyes of a 10 year old kid lol!! I came to enjoy them until the run was discontinued the service with the Chretien cuts to Via).

    To me the 2200 series seemed to suite the maroon livery more than the silver, they looked more elegant.

    I remember as a little boy running to the back room window to watch the passenger trains crossing the St. Maurice river bridge, oh joy, especially seeing the dome (the last time I saw a dome cross that bridge was when CN repaired the Victoria bridge and the Ocean ran via CP to Quebec City then to CN for the rest of the trip to Halifax).

    Wow, I wish we had HD cameras back then but I would have been too young to use one lol.

    Another smooth sided CP passenger car that has always caught my attention were the Grove named sleepers. I thought it was unfortunate more weren't built but of course the reason was the Budd built cars. Whatever happened to them? I don't think I've ever seen a photo of the interior of a Grove sleeper. It seems while they were still in service, they ended up on the Atlantic and a recent story in Classic Trains mentioned a trip via the D & H to Montreal (before the start of Amtrak) with a couple of Grove sleeping cars. There was some back story to that as I found by reading a piece in Canadian Rail which mentioned that bailiffs had seized two Penn Central cars in Montreal for some reason so I guess that was why they were used?

    Going back to the RDCs, I remember in the early 70s when it was Mardi Gras week in Quebec City, there were at least five coupled together, offering standing room only service. I'm sure this didn't endear CP to passengers especially when they could have used regular equipment they had sitting around at the Glenn. Of course that was the point lol.

    Eric, has anyone ever written a definitive history of Canadian Pacific's passenger trains? Dale Wilson did write "From Abbey to Zorra via Bagdad" but this wasnt meant as a definitive work.

    Thanks for letting me ramble on Eric, I appreciate your posts as they always stimulate my imagination! :)


    Chris

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  15. PS, Eric, I hope Rapido will fill the gap regarding the 2200 series coaches (and baggage cars and Grove sleepers) as they will go well with their steam engines such as the Royal Hudsons.

    Chris

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  16. Thanks for your comment and or sharing your memories, Chris.

    I don't claim to be an expert on CP's pre-VIA passenger fleet. At least it was not huge, once the heavyweight car fleet was no longer in use. The Old Time Trains website may be a good source of information.

    My Dad grew up in Westmount and spent lots of time between Windsor and Glen Yard!

    You'll join the ranks of Canadian modellers patiently waiting for Rapido to produce their favourites, despite all odds. Remember the Tempo!!

    Eric

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